Putting Out The Fire

A few weeks ago I ordered the free Finding Happiness dvd produced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I did so because I had seen the commercial for the dvd advertised on an insane number of websites that I visit during the week. I had seen the trailer pop up on every kind of website ranging from comic book news, pop culture and even to some technology sites I frequently visit. The advertising campaign is clearly a broad one and they are really getting big bang for their bucks.

I’d had seen the trailer before last week and even heard a snippit or two on Chris Rosebrough’s program Fighting for the Faith. Seeing the video being advertised over such a broad range of websites definitely piqued my curiosity and I went ahead and ordered it through the online form. That was two weeks ago.

About a week after I placed my order I got a call from two missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Mormons, asking me if they could drop off my copy of Finding Happiness. Then they asked, like all good missionaries do, “can we talk with you about Jesus?”

Here’s a question for readers of POTF; if you were having lunch with two youthful Mormon missionaries, what would you ask them? How would you handle talking to two kids whose mission it is to deliver a message and record the response? What would you do?

Labels: Evangelism, LDS, Mormon

I received a comment on my God's wrath and Noah’s ark post last week that qualifies as one of my top ten favorite comments critical of something I’ve written in a post I. Here’s the comment left almost a week ago followed by my response as I wrote it; spelling and grammer errors included (you folks do know that I don’t type… dontchya?):


There is no proof for Noah's Ark or the Bible. Why do you teach children these horrifying stories as fact? A baby drowning because of God's wrath and judgement. I was a Christan until recently. As an informed adult, I have finally come to question what I was brainwashed into believing. You'll probably delete or not post this, but I'm trying to make you think about what harm you're doing to these kids. They should not accept such wrath as love. Consider the fear you're instilling in them, for no reason than your own blind faith in a book you have no proof is more than a myth.

I replied:

Anonymous, I don’t delete comments that are on topic for the same reason I’m not afraid to use my real name, I’m not afraid of engaging a critic in a debate.

The account of Noah’s ark is not just about God’s wrath but one of his mercy as well. It is God’s love and mercy that we see as Noah and his family climb aboard the ark just as it is God’s love and mercy that we see as a child (or adult) rise out of the waters of holy Baptism and welcomed into the ark of Christ’s Church.

If you reread the post you’ll see that law or wrath is only half the post and I specifically said that I did NOT pile on with the wrath and the death. I did say that I spent the majority of the class talking about the Gospel and how God saves us through Christ.

The remarkable thing is that the kids I teach understand human nature better than most adults do. They understand that they are born sinful and that there needs to be a “fix” for that. There are a goodly number of adults that say we are all just good people trying to get by doing good works and changing the world. If that is the case, they really don’t need a Jesus for anything more than a life coach or cheerleader do they? Why is it that children and young adults have a better understanding of Scripture and the nature of sin than adults do?

I’m curious though, what information do you have (that I don’t) that the Bible is a myth? If you wish to go the science route (I do happen to like the) I would be happy to supply with oodles of information from real live archeologists that can at least substantiate the claims of the writers of Scripture so that you have a better understanding of the historicity of both the Old and New Testaments.

As an atheist for over 15 years one of the things that always bothered me was the science. There is a vast amount of archeological evidence and more and more things are being uncovered every day. Recently King David’s palace was discovered and the neat thing is that the majority of textual and historical critics chalked the story of David up to Jewish tribal myths. The site was found when an archeologist read her bible and noticed that David’s palce sat on top of a hill. Where did she dig? That’s right, on top of a hill in proximity to other sites noted in the Biblical accounts.

There are also historical records that are extra biblical written by folks who are not Christian that actually validate the very thing that they are writing against. I would be happy to discuss that as well… if you wish to have a conversation.
Posted by Frank Gillespie | 9:30 AM

For what it’s worth, the Ohio commenter found my site by searching Google with the words “gods wrath noah flood.” I can’t say I’m really surprised that I haven’t heard back from him or her yet.

Labels: Archeology, Goofy Stuff, Science

From the trailer for the latest, greatest, and newest video game sensation:

A family shouldn't have to wait until Sunday to worship the Lord. Now you can go to church every day without leaving your home. Participate in more than 24 unique and exhilarating Ceremonies. Be sure to try them all. The more you play, the more Grace points you collect. Then trade in your Grace points to unlock the Holy Mysteries. Only from Prayer Works Interactive. Help bring your family closer, to Heaven...

Mass we pray was developed by Prayer Works Interactive; a new game-development company founded in Boston in 2007. They believe there is a lack of quality games based upon traditional family values.

Let’s all be honest and admit it; at the end of the day you really can’t get more traditional than genuflection! No, no you can’t.

I don’t know about ya’ll, but I will simply have no other choice than to shell out some serious coin for Mass: We Pray if for no other reason than to try out the genuflection module!

What are you waiting for? Visit the Mass: We Pray website and pre-order yours right now!

Update: I just removed the links as some cyberterrorists have hacked into the game website and changed the order links to a video game that is NOT Mass: We Pray... me am sad.

Labels: Goofy Stuff

Today’s Issues, Etc. soundbite of the day comes from Rev. Dr. Richard Stuckwisch of Emmaus Lutheran Church-South Bend, IN talking about what the criteria should be for a core group of congregational hymns back on September 28, 2009's show.

For today’s soundbite Dr. Stuckwisch responds to hosts Todd Wilken’s questions concerning what makes good hymns good and then later what makes bad hymns bad.

Labels: Catechesis, Hymnody, Issues Etc, Soundbite of the Day

A commenter recently asked me if I was writing my own Bible studies or if I was using purchased material for my Sunday school class for high school students. I have written a goodly number of my own studies over the last ten years but the other person who shares teaching duties with me and I do occasionally use materials purchased from a variety of publishers.

The study on water that we are currently using is from the Fusion series published by the good folks at Concordia Publishing House. The neatest thing about all of the studies in the Fusion books is the manner in which they connect the dots between the Old and New Testament and in doing so spotlight Christ on every page of Scripture. The Fusion study of water is full of sacramental types that point to the antitype, Jesus and His work in the Sacrament of Holy Baptism and is an absolute hoot. From God at work saving eight people in the account of Noah and the flood, saving His people Israel when they’re backs were up against the Red Sea with Pharaoh and his chariots pursuing them, and to the saving and healing of a gentile leper named Naaman in the not so pristine waters of the Jordan River; Fusion makes it clear that all of Scripture points to our baptism into Jesus’ baptism where we are made new creatures and righteous on the account of Christ!

So often folks (youngsters as well as oldsters) know all the stories of the Old Testament but fail to see how all those stories connect with the Gospels and the work of Jesus. Fusion connects the dots in a clear and enlightening manner that is truly a joy to teach. All of the books in the Fusion series have an easy and accessible way about them that encourages dialogue while not dumbing the material down as so many studies geared to youth and young adults seem to do.

Also, with only a few tweaks, the books in the Fusion series could challenge any Sunday morning adult class and I would recommended them for the catechesis of oldsters without hesitation.

Labels: Catechesis, Sunday school, Youth

I saw a news story downloaded in my iPod touch yesterday that gave me a bit of a chuckle. The BBC is reporting that the Malaysian government has seized 10,000 Bibles (the AP is reporting that the number is actually 15,000!) for using the word "Allah" to refer to God. An excerpt from the BBC report:

The Malaysian government has refused to release 10,000 Bibles which it seized because they contained the word Allah to refer to God. The government, which is dominated by Muslim Malays, claims that the word Allah is Islamic and that its use in Bibles could upset Muslims.

The Roman Catholic Church is challenging the ban in court. Religion has become highly sensitive in Malaysia, where about two-thirds of the population is Muslim.

Now I’ve heard the case made that sometimes make too much of made of the word Allah as it was in use long before there were peaceful Mohammadians colonizing the Middle East and Europe by Arabic speaking Christians. Fair enough, I’ll accept that to a point. However, when the word Allah is used by politicians like Presidents George W. Bush or Barrack Obama or even purpose driven pastor extraordinaire Rick Warren to say we all worship one deity whether he or she is called Allah or God or even the god of our many understandings (goomu) we should be just as offended as the peaceful Mohammadians so often seem to get.

I would actually argue that the Malaysian government is actually a little of the curve in their understanding that the Allah confessed by Arabic speaking Christians is a very different god than the Allah submitted to by the Mohammadians and I applaud them for their insight.

Labels: Mohammadians

Because ya’ll already have too many things to do and too little time to get it all done… I’d like to recommend that you good folks squeeze in one more thing onto your to do list and subscribe to The God Whisperers podcast.

Pastors Craig Donofrio and Bill Cwirla are an absolute hoot! Their weekly podcast is only about an hour long and is an in-depth study of what it means to be Christian and how we as Christians have historically read and understood God’s Word.

Right now I’m listening to these good earthy Lutheran pastors teach the Christian faith by walking us through the Augsburg Confession; a sixteenth century defense of the Christian faith against a Roman church that looked to indulgences and papal decrees instead of God’s gracious gift of His only son Jesus and Scripture alone to comfort terrified souls.

If such a study sounds uninteresting or tedious, I beg you to give Pastors Donofrio and Cwirla a try and see for yourself how much fun theology can be! What a blessing it is that we have such talented pastors willing to use new media without compromising one iota. Please do yourself a favor and give ‘em a try, I’m certain that you’ll be glad you did.

Labels: Augsburg Confession, Catechesis, Confessio Augustana, Podcasts

As we move through our study on how God uses water to create and destroy and to kill and bring to life in Scripture; one thing has become crystal clear: kids in high school absolutely love the “athletic” parts of the Bible.

Nothing gets my students “animated” like death and destruction by plagues, famine, and of course by means of our current study: water. Given the chance to draw a picture, a couple of the kids stepped up to the plate and sketched out a not so happy rendition of Noah’s ark floating on the water of a condemned earth. Departing from the cute motifs often seen taped up on nurseries and Sunday school classrooms, my students drew an ark floating on a world flooded by God’s righteous and holy wrath which included people drowning and drowned outside and beneath the ark. When the picture was done all were happy and justifiably proud of their work. Yep, they loves them some destruction and mayhem.

But guess what happened when someone added babies, pregnant women, and the elderly to those who had come under God’s righteous judgment on sinful mankind? Can you guess the class’s mood when they saw those who they are told always help and protect are also condemned to drown outside the safety of the ark along with the most vile murders and thieves?

I’ll admit that I was a bit taken aback with just how uncomfortable some in the class became with all of the human race falling under God’s judgment. More than one student explained that it just made them uneasy to see the “innocent” or weak drowned with the dregs of society. Some of the kids even had difficulty making eye contact during this part of the class. I guess cheering for babies drowning just ain’t as cool cheering for murderers getting their comeuppance.

It would’ve been all too easy for me to slam the kids, as so many often do (especially many in youth leadership positions within our own beloved synod who talk of community built on service in soup kitchens and such and coffee shop emoting apart from the community we are when we go to Church to hear His Word preached and receive His gifts in the Sacraments administered rightly), with a lecture on the keeping of the Law so that they can live transformed lives. It would be easy to tell them they just need to do better to live more sanctified lives so that they may have the assurance that they never will suffer the wrath that they deserve as they have inherited Adam’s curse. There was a time when I would’ve piled on with more and more law as so many did with me in my own youth. But, that was in the before times, in the long, long ago.

Living sanctified and good lives may be called for in Scripture but such is a result or an effect of the Gospel but not the Gospel proper. The Gospel is that Jesus took all the wrath that we, if we are honest here, so justly deserve upon himself and made satisfaction on the cursed tree at Golgotha. (John 1:29, and also Romans 3:21–26 and 4:5)

In our baptism, our old sinful selves are drowned and we are recreated as new creatures and brought into the ark of God’s one holy and Church catholic by the water and His Word. (Romans 6:4 and Titus 3:4–7)! Those kids shamed with the understanding that they along with all of humanity are under the curse of the law knew that they deserved to be drowned but they didn’t completely understand when they came out of the water of their baptism they were just as safe as Noah in the ark.

The rest of the class was all Gospel in that we were assured, not by Mr. Gillespie’s word but by God’s Holy Word that God saves His people not on account of their own righteousness but the account of His only begotten Son’s work at the cross. I assured them that through Baptism the Lord made them heirs of heaven itself and as heirs they could be assured that were baptized into the ark eternal; Christ’s Church now and forever.

It was good to see that they understood that they were poor sinful creature deserving of God’s wrath. It was even better seeing the little light bulbs go off over their heads when they understood that they did rise out of the water of their baptism a new creation and placed aboard the ark of the Church. It was good to see that they understood sacramental nature of Noah’s story. It was good to see that they were able to join with Saint Peter and say in confidence that “Baptism saves.” Amen!

Labels: Catechesis, Sunday school, Youth

Tomorrow, in addition to on of my favorite secular holidays: Halloween, is Reformation Day. On Reformation Day we celebrate Martin Luther nailing the Ninety-Five Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg. What was Dr. Luther’s problem with the selling of indulgences? Plain and simple; indulgences were the forgiveness of sins; not on the account of Christ vicarious atonement on the cross but rather forgiveness based on coins placed in a coffer or through works demanded by church leadership.

Here is a portion of a Reformation Day sermon (Reformation Day was actually celebrated last Sunday) that outlines some… similarities, to what we see going on in many churches across both the country and as well denominational lines and certainly within my own beloved synod the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod:

Back in October of 1517 there was a man who was not on board with the plan. It was the church’s plan and (as usual) it involved a building and fund raising program. The more things change…

Anyway, this man was not on board either with the building or the fund raising plan. In fact, he was not on board much at all with the general plan of the contemporary church. His objection, in a nutshell? Too much work. Too much of our work, that is. Too much about me and not enough about Christ. That was essentially his objection. This man figured the Christian Church should be about Christ and His body the church which Christ Himself bought with His own blood and builds with His own hands, freely, graciously, without needing our hurrying, scurrying around, all our building and fund raising and outreaching efforts. This man figured that since Christ is God, after all, He can be trusted to take care of everything, while we simply ride the wave of Baptism all the way into the Kingdom…

This was not the plan corporate headquarters hatched. Theirs was more… fiery. Headquarters had sent mission execs to all the provinces, even to little Wittenberg in Saxony where this man lived and taught at the local university. It was listening to one of these mission executives (guy named Tetzel) that moved our man to post some theses pointing out what was wrong with the plan and what Scripture had to say about the plan. 95 theses he had, detailed objections to the plan. It’s what we’re recalling today.

As we said, the plan ultimately revolved around a building program, and every building program has at its heart a fund raising strategy. Because church fund raising goes better if it is tied to the essential mission of the church, the plan from church headquarters tied it ultimately to our eternal destiny in heaven or hell. The pitch went something like this:

“People are dying and going to hell every day. This is terrible. A terrible, tragic thing! Surely, you, dear Christian friend, don’t want to see people dying and burning in hell, especially you or your loved ones, do you? Of course you don’t want to see that. So here’s what we can do about it: the church has these little mission pamphlets. We call them “indulgences”. The name isn’t important. The mission is what drives it! You purchase one of these indulgences (they are like five bucks or so—and what’s five bucks compared to eternity in hell? Surely you can spare five bucks to get a soul out of hell, can’t you? Of course you can. Even in this economy!). You purchase an indulgence, use it yourself or share it with someone in danger of hell’s fire, and voila! They’re on the fast track out of hell, toward heaven…

“Because it’s a process, the more you buy, the quicker the trip. The more they see you care. Now it’s not like the paper itself gets a person out of hell. Of course we rely on Christ to do that, ultimately! But Christ has called us to help Him with this very big job. You wouldn’t want Jesus to have to do this all Himself would you? Didn’t He do enough, getting the ball rolling, dying for you on a cross? Don’t you want to help Jesus? Sure you do. So here’s how you can help: Jesus called 12 guys, we call them apostles, to get people out of hell. Our boss at corporate headquarters is the direct successor of Peter, the head guy. He is empowered to announce the way to life to all people and everyone needs to hear this from him. By purchasing these indulgences you create mission moments where lost souls hear how much the church can do for them and find their way to our doors. From there, the chances they get out of hell and into heaven improve exponentially. All for five bucks. Are you in, dear friend? How many do you want to buy today?”

Some of the purchasers of the indulgences had a good question: “what exactly does the five bucks go for anyway?”

“Well, of course, some of it is for overhead, to pay our international center staff’s salaries. Copying costs, advertising, etc. But half of it goes for building a new corporate headquarters. We need a visible, tangible sign of our church’s great power to save, something to inspire the heart and fill the eye. We call it “St. Peter’s Cathedral”. It’s being built right now in the holy city and will be the biggest and best cathedral in the world, as is fitting for Christ’s holy church…

“When pilgrims come to St. Peter’s, they will see how powerful the church is to save! They will want to tell more of their friends and neighbors and this will put them all on the path that leads from hell to heaven.”

“So, what,” the purchaser wondered, “is required of us to get to heaven, after we come into the church that is?”

“Well, Christ did the hard part dying on the cross! But, of course, you have to do something too! Clean up your act a bit. Live a better life. And buy more indulgences to create mission moments to get you and your neighbors out of hell…

Hmm, plus ca change, plus c'est pareil...

Labels: Reformation Day

Dan over at Necessary Roughness has the newest Time Out; Time Out, Episode 37 posted.

The Scripture reading for this episode is Psalm 46 and Revelation 19:11-21 and the hymn is “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God.” found on page 656 in the Lutheran Service Book.

A Mighty Fortress Is Our God by Dr. Luther is considered the battle hymn of the reformation and it is usually sung on Reformation Day which commemorates Martin Luther nailing his ninety-five theses to the door of the Wittenberg Castle Church in which he laid out the abuses of the Roman church’s selling of indulgences.

Dan treats us to a bit of commentary on the end of the third verse when he writes:

At the end of the third verse, the lyric is, “one little word can fell him (Satan).” We dropped the volume on the phrase, and I almost sing-song-taunted the line. What little word fells Satan? There’s no official answer. Some have said, “Jesus”; others have said, “Liar!” “Jesus” works, but “Liar” is great because it goes to the core of the problem of the devil. He is the deceiver. He doesn’t care if we believe in him, just that we don’t believe that Christ died to save us. The Pharisees of the New Testament time didn’t worship Satan outright, and yet they were of their father, the devil (John 8:39-47).

He’s judged. The deed is done. Amen.

Be sure to stop by, say howdy, and thank Dan for doing such a great job on Time Out, Episode 37!

Previous Time Out episodes:

Time Out Episode 32
Time Out Episode 33
Time Out Episode 34
Time Out Episode 35
Time Out Episode 36

Labels: Time Out

The Lutheran Church of Sweden last week joined a growing number of denominational bodies that have chosen to reject their heritage as reformation heirs and bless homosexual unions. With a margin of 70-30% in favor of the change, the church body now falls in line with its governments recent passing of a new law in May allowing homosexuals the same marriage rights as heterosexuals in spite of homosexuality being declared as sinful.

From the BBC story the Archbishop of Sweden, Anders Wejryd is reported as saying:

"For my part, the right decision was taken, but I can empathise with the many who believe this has gone too fast."

No surprise I guess that Archbishop Wejryd is following the culture as so many have done recently as opposed to remaining faithful to God’s Holy Word and calling a sin what it is; sin. Apparently the only thing Archbishop Wejryd is sorry for is the moving too quickly to reject God's Word.

It is also not surprising that the same story reports that church attendance is rather low in a church body where right and wrong or truth and falsehood are not absolute but change from culture to culture and situation to situation.

I’m starting to believe that there is something really, really wrong with the water in Sweden. Just last week I found out that Sweden was burning bunnies to warm their homes. Yep, something is very rotten in Sweden.

Labels: Heterodoxy

This week’s blog of the week is a post titled “Germs and The Common Cup” over at Elephant’s Child’s self titled blog. Elephant’s Child, a frequent commenter here at the firehouse, has a few observations of sanitary practices that add to the reasons for her wanting one chalice and not individual cups, even during flu season, at the Lord’s Supper.

A few of her observations:

The edges of your plastic individual cups were touched by an altar guild member, when she inserted them into the trays. Then, your cup was touched by you, when you removed it from the tray.

Did you wash your hands after you shook hands with the greeter before church?
Does your congregation "share the peace" during the service? How clean are YOUR hands?

I've seen our communion assistants grabbing the cups by the edges and rearranging them in the tray, too.

What’s brilliant in it’s simplicity concerning Elephant’s Child’s observations is that germs are indeed everywhere and the more individual cups are handled the greater the chances that a virus is spread.

The debate for and against aside the common cup at the Eucharist aside, the recent H1N1 swine flu pandemic has certainly produced some rather interesting debates on a host of blogs across the blogosphere. Sadly, there are actually people who advocate individual cups with the argument that our Lord and the authors of Scripture had no way of knowing about diseases and such.

It frustrates me to no end to hear folks say that the same Jesus who both created and redeemed the human race was ignorant of the flu and therefore couldn’t have had enough insight to mandate individual cups so that the sheep wouldn’t get sick. Sorry, but if you want to make an argument for individual cups, you’ll need to better than that.

Great post Elephant’s Child!

Labels: Blog of the Week, Eucharist

All too often a goodly number of my evangelical friends get frustrated that I really don’t want anything to do with contemporary Christian music. Generally speaking I just can’t stomach what passes itself off as Christian songs as the standard seems to be only an inclusion of the word God or worse yet an illusion to some spirit that is guaranteed make us feel better about the place we have earned by our accepting his (it’s) knock at the door of Americanized Christianity.

If Jesus does happen to make an appearance in CCM, He is regularly cleaned up and polished so we aren’t reminded of all our innumerable sins which our Lord bears as He does his salvific work on the cross. Often in CCM the Lord of heaven and earth who makes footstools of his enemies is turned into some poor shlub we want to have a beer with while watching a football game after brunch at Applebees or worse yet; an eroticized significant other that we want to curl up on the couch with so we can feel him breath on our happy selves. Eeeeww!

But what happens when the music and songs that claim to be Christian offer up a new, improved, and made here in America Jesus? What happens when the Jesus of God’s Word is substituted with a plan B Jesus who is neither eternal nor begotten but rather a creature like you or I whose brother is Satan himself? Is it possible to divide the Jesus of Scripture and His work so that we can have songs that sing of a Jesus that inflicts some kind of bosom burning (sorta like last night’s kielbasa casserole surprise?) and automatically get a pass as something a Christian can or even should sing?

Answers; we run as fast as we can away from a Jesus of our own creation, ditto, and hell no.

Recently on Chris Rosebrough’s radio program, Fighting for the Faith, Chris reported that Marie Osmond is getting a record deal at Word Distribution; a company that focuses on the contemporary Christian music market. What’s the problem with Marie Osmond getting a record deal at a company dedicated to providing CCM to the masses? She is Mormon and therefore not Christian! Marie Osmond’s Jesus is not the Jesus of the Old and New Testament but a creature like us who becomes a god (like we all can be according to Mormon theology; “as god is so can we become” see Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20).

A few “frank facts” on what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Mormons, believe about Jesus:

Labels: BSG, Goofy Stuff, Heterodoxy, LDS, Mormon, Praise Songs

My copy of The Lutheran Study Bible LARGER Print Sangria Genuine Leather edition arrived on Friday! Wow, this is one big honking study bible! What a tremendous resource that I look forward to using in my daily devotional readings and in the preparation of my weekly Sunday school class! Hmm, more exclamation points than a district, uh, newsletter… need to work on that I guess.

Now I know what some of you good folks are asking; “Frank, exactly how big is the The Lutheran Study Bible LARGER Print Sangria Genuine Leather edition?” Well, I’m glad you asked because as a metrologist I simply love to measure things. A few “frank” facts on my new favorite study Bible:

Labels: TLSB

The following is what I sent to a friend of mine after he emailed me the Theses on Worship issued by the Council of Presidents and asked for my ever so humble opinion (I actually hadn’t seen them myself until Monday as I’ve been pretty busy with matters outside and off of the interweb):

While I have a love for theology I’m certainly not a trained theologian. I’m also by no means a wordsmith or anything approaching a good communicator. That being said; this document is a convoluted mess that a council of trained theologians should be embarrassed to issue! My thoughts on the thesis are as follows:

· We’ve surrendered the word worship to the evangelical view that worship is something that we do instead a Divine Service where it is God who gives His gifts.
· The liturgy is adiaphoria so we can each do what is right in our own eyes and anyone who says otherwise is only doing so to burden the souls who seek to experience God through their worship. In other words, AC XV 1 should be ignored and we amend AC XV to simply say all liturgy is a human tradition and therefore contrary to the Gospel. AC XXIV should also be amended to reflect the same.
· Our view of the Old testament is now equal to that of the Mormons where the liturgical rites that prefigure temple and synagogue worship were plan A and B and where overturned By Jesus and the apostles and are rightfully ignored and condemned. Our understanding of these rites as essential to understanding the vicarious atonement of Christ at Golgotha is as old fashioned as those dusty sixteenth century confessions and need to condemned.
· Worship is about you and community (read into this the emergent influence and undertones). Your calling is to expand your community so that more folks can understand that worship is about you and community.
· There can be true forms of worship just don’t tell me that there are wrong forms of worship because that will make me sad and I’ll accuse you of burdening my conscience.
· We should talk about the above until everyone agrees with us and can then claim unity.

Well, that’s my thoughts on this nonsensical drivel.

Pastor Klemet Preus also has some things to say about the thesis over at a post on Steadfast Lutherans.

Labels: Church Growth, Confessio Augustana, Divine Service, Emergent Church, Goofy Stuff, Liturgy, Worship